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Ahora quedó incómodo para que Lula realmente respondiera",8446.66,{"idx":20,"speaker_name":7,"text":21,"start_s":22},1546,"todo el tiempo sobre Petrobras.",8454.1,{"idx":24,"utterance_id":25,"speaker_name":7,"text":26,"start_s":27,"end_s":28,"word_count":29,"topic_slug":30,"topic_label":31,"target_id":32,"target_proposition":33,"stance":34,"stance_confidence":35,"rationale":36,"indexable":37},1547,"9160","Lula intentó usar ahí una fórmula que usó en el Jornal Nacional, usó en otros debates, usó en entrevistas de decir: no, que no se puede quebrar la empresa, hay que investigar la corrupción, pero no se puede quebrar la empresa. Pero hubo un momento en que admití, no, sí, hubo robo. 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