Luis Inacio Lula da Silva: I fight a lot because the public machine has a manual.
Luis Inacio Lula da Silva: You know, everyone is afraid of being accused of corruption.
So the guy who's at Caixa Econômica, the guy at Banco do Brasil, the guy at the Federal Revenue, the guy who's, you know, in a public office, he, you know, when he's going to release money for a project, he will count to a thousand, man.
Luis Inacio Lula da Silva: Because he says, and if there's any complaint, I'll...
Rogério Vilela: But you know what it seems to me from the outside, to ordinary people, is that these people aren't afraid.